aue.txt
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$Id: aue.txt,v 1.1 2000/03/15 18:29:52 ap1jjg Exp $

Some correspondance on alt.usage.english. I am curious as to
what you should call the decimal point in a number qua symbol.
The correspondance was inconclusive, and I decided to use
"decimal symbol" and "group symbol" after all.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Punctuation of numbers

Hello all

I need to refer to the punctation used in numbers, eg.,

  3.141,592,653

in a language-independant fashion. Specifically to
* the "decimal separator" ("." or centered dot in English, "," in French)
* the "digit-triple separator" ("," in English, "." in French)

Would anyone have any suggestions or references?

Thanks

-j
-- 
J.J.Green, Dept. Applied Math. University of Sheffield, UK
http://www.arbs.demon.co.uk

From: "Frank Peelo" <fpeelo@indigo.ie>
Subject: Re: Punctuation of numbers
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:19:26 -0000
Xref: news.shef.ac.uk alt.usage.english:415923


john green <ap1jjg@gold.cics.shef.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:s8xpusxbud1.fsf@gold.cics.shef.ac.uk...
> Hello all
>
> I need to refer to the punctation used in numbers, eg.,
>
>   3.141,592,653
>
> in a language-independant fashion. Specifically to
> * the "decimal separator" ("." or centered dot in English, "," in French)
> * the "digit-triple separator" ("," in English, "." in French)

Do all languages group digits in threes? Windows, at least, allows you to
specify the number of digits in a group, which suggests that some regions
use different groupings.
FP


From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown)
Subject: Re: Punctuation of numbers
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:46:36 -0500
Organization: Oak Road Systems
Xref: news.shef.ac.uk alt.usage.english:416044

Said ap1jjg@gold.cics.shef.ac.uk (john green) in 
alt.usage.english:
>Hello all
>
>I need to refer to the punctation used in numbers, eg.,
>
>  3.141,592,653
>
>in a language-independant fashion. Specifically to
>* the "decimal separator" ("." or centered dot in English, "," in French)
>* the "digit-triple separator" ("," in English, "." in French)

First, I don't know of any widespread style that puts commas 
*after* the decimal point. 

Second, in 234,123.33 the comma is a "thousands separator", in my 
vocabulary anyway. ISO Handbook 1, /Units of Measurement/, calls 
the separator between the whole and fractional parts a "decimal 
sign". Microsloth Windows calls them "digit grouping symbol" and 
"decimal symbol".

The preferred decimal sign is the comma, and the preferred 
thousands separator is a thin space. The American way is a period 
and a comma, respectively.

-- 
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA
                http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/
alt.usage.English intro and FAQs: http://go.to/aue
WWWebster online dictionary: http://www.m-w.com/mw/netdict.htm
more FAQs: http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/faqget.htm

From: "Bruce McIntyre" <mcbruce1@home.nospam.com>
Subject: Re: Punctuation of numbers
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:20:53 GMT
Organization: @Home Network Canada
Xref: news.shef.ac.uk alt.usage.english:416159


"Stan Brown" <brahms@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.13386f363c85ff8298adbe@news.mindspring.com...
| Said ap1jjg@gold.cics.shef.ac.uk (john green) in
| alt.usage.english:
|
| Second, in 234,123.33 the comma is a "thousands separator", in
my
| vocabulary anyway. ISO Handbook 1, /Units of Measurement/, calls
| the separator between the whole and fractional parts a "decimal
| sign". Microsloth Windows calls them "digit grouping symbol" and
| "decimal symbol".
|
| The preferred decimal sign is the comma, and the preferred
| thousands separator is a thin space. The American way is a
period
| and a comma, respectively.
|

I like the thin space as a thousands separator where possible.  In
newsgroups, which most of us read in monospaced text (and if you
don't you probably should), I think the comma is a reasonable
second choice.  My sense of logic says that if the comma is going
to be sometimes used as a thousands separator, it should never be
used as a decimal symbol, as is commonly done in Europe (and
perhaps elsewhere).

Probably the reason Windows calls it a digit grouping symbol is
that sometimes long decimals are separated, as in "1 Plekka =
0.000 276 4 Euros."  (Don't ask me what a Plekka is; I made it
up.)  It's easier to see from this that 27,640 Plekka make 1 Euro.
I know, it's easier to write "27,640 Plekka = 1 Euro" but not if
it's part of a list...

I agree that commas/periods should never be used as decimal
separators.


--
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|   McBruce   |    Note new email: mcbruce1@home.com   |
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`------------------------------------------------------'


Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:04:35 +0100 (MET)
From: Arndt Jonasson <arndt@erix.ericsson.se>
To: ap1jjg@gold.shef.ac.uk

In article <s8xpusxbud1.fsf@gold.cics.shef.ac.uk> you write:
>Hello all
>
>I need to refer to the punctation used in numbers, eg.,
>
>  3.141,592,653
>
>in a language-independant fashion. Specifically to
>* the "decimal separator" ("." or centered dot in English, "," in French)
>* the "digit-triple separator" ("," in English, "." in French)
>
>Would anyone have any suggestions or references?

I don't know good names for them, but note that a blank is sometimes
used as a "digit-triple separator", and that in Japanese, they separate
digit-quadruples instead. Maybe "digit-group separator" is a better
term.

-- 
Arndt Jonasson              Ericsson Utvecklings AB
arndt@erix.ericsson.se      ÄT2/UAB/F/P
+46 8 719 75 87             126 25 Stockholm




